The Modern LeadHer Way

[101] When One Door Closes: How Redundancy Can Be The Greatest Opportunity

• Emma Clayton • Season 4 • Episode 101

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For our 2nd birthday, we're re-running the most downloaded episode of all 100 episodes so far - and it's this solo episode about my redundancy experience... enjoy and be sure to claim your GIFT by following the link to the Modern LeadHer Success Roadmap: https://www.emmaclaytonxo.com/f/mlh-success-roadmap

What if your greatest fear became your greatest opportunity? After witnessing my father's redundancy as a child, I carried the dread of job loss through twenty years in corporate leadership. When faced with my own redundancy, something unexpected happened - I embraced it.

During a meditation session in Bali, clarity struck like lightning. This wasn't an ending but a beginning. Despite concerned parents and tempting offers to remain in the corporate world, I chose to walk away. Six years later, I've created a coaching practice helping women navigate their leadership journeys without sacrificing their souls.

My story challenges the traditional career narrative that keeps us tethered to predetermined paths. Women possess a remarkable ability to reinvent themselves throughout their lives - from career-focused professionals to flexible entrepreneurs to purpose-driven contributors. We don't have to start on one path and finish on the same one.

The freedom I've discovered beyond the corporate walls has revealed strengths I never knew I possessed. I've traded predictability for possibility and security for curiosity. What crossroads are you facing? What would happen if you viewed redundancy not as a risk but as an invitation to something greater?

To support your own journey, I've created the Modern Leader Success Roadmap—a free guide to help you define success on your own terms and begin charting your path to fulfilment. Whether you're considering a career pivot, facing redundancy, or simply questioning if there's more to life than climbing the corporate ladder, this roadmap will illuminate possibilities you might never have considered.

Get Your FREE Success Roadmap: https://www.emmaclaytonxo.com/f/mlh-success-roadmap

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Speaker 1:

This is the Modern Leader Way a podcast for corporate career women who want to feel good on their way to the top. I'm Emma Clayton and I'll be sharing with you tangible advice to help you stop sacrificing your soul in the name of success and experience more balance, confidence and fulfilment both in and out of work. Happy birthday to us. Happy birthday to us. We turn two today on the podcast. I can't believe it. We had our 100th episode last week. This is 101. Thank you, as always, for being here. I absolutely love the fact that you come back time after time to have me in your ear. It means the absolute world, and thank you for all the messages I've had, with all the love for the show and all the support. It really does mean so much. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1:

And what I wanted to do for the celebration of the second birthday today is actually look back over the last 100 episodes and pull out the most popular, the most downloaded, the most listened to episode of all time and do a rerun, because why bloody not? If it was that popular in the first place, then it deserves to be aired again, and that so happens to be a solo episode that I did very early on. It was actually originally episode 14. And it was all about my redundancy story and it was originally called Redundancy. Is it a Risk or an Opportunity? Because I think and I mentioned this on the episode last week with Russell who was talking about his redundancy situation that you know, at first it's kind of like oh God, you have the emotions about oh God, why me? And for me it was like the worst case scenario, like it's the worst thing that could have happened to me in my mind before it actually happened to me, and thankfully there was something inside of me that just saw that this was going to be a good thing. It was going to be an opportunity to spread my wings, to go do something else, to go apply myself to, to do something that I perhaps hadn't ever envisaged doing, and being my own boss as well, which I always kind of fancied.

Speaker 1:

So here we are, eight years later, and I think the other thing that's worth saying is, whilst I obviously help women thrive in their leadership roles within corporate, a big part of me really does get excited when someone comes to me and tells me that they are actually in transition out of corporate or out of their current role because of redundancy and that's not from a place of lack of empathy or anything like that, because obviously I wouldn't necessarily be excited in their face if they were sad about it at the time. But I know, because I have no fear for them. I know what's on the other side of it in terms of the opportunities Once you get off that treadmill, once you get onto your own path and follow what you always came here to do, which isn't necessarily the career path that we land on and end up in for 20, 30 years, as we've heard with both myself and Russell recently and this episode falls on perfect timing because I have just come back from Womanifest where I hosted a workshop this weekend which was super fun. I am gonna do my best to play the workshop on next week's episode, so tune in for that. But what I did during that workshop was actually launched my very brand new freebie, which is called the Modern Leader Success Roadmap. So if you are intrigued about this idea of being on the treadmill to burnout and wanting to know what your path to fulfillment looks like, your true path, then the success roadmap is for you. So this is a freebie download. It's a pdf. It's got some super powerful exercises in there to help you go through your own process to uncover what's really important to you and what you have made success equals up to now, and actually what success gets to look like for you moving forward and it and you might be surprised by what comes out. So head to the show notes for that. You can click the link, add your email and get it sent to your inbox to download. And, yeah, I look forward to hearing what you come up with, what your definition of success comes out as the other end of going through the process. So I'm super excited for you to dive into that and in the meantime, if there's anything else that I can support you with, then please do reach out. I have a number of ways you can work with me, both one-to-one and in small groups, through my time out experiences and, of course, time out in Spain this September. So do let me know if you want any more details on any of those things, and you'll most likely find the links in the show notes as well. So let's get into the rerun. Let me know also what you think of this episode and, um, did you listen to it first time around? See if you hear anything new this time. All right, take care, lots of love and see you on the other side.

Speaker 1:

I wanted to talk about something that is kind of front of my mind at the moment, because at this time of year, in october, I get super reflective about my last day at work, which was October the 20th in 2017. So six years ago, at the time of recording, and I remember the day that I went in and had my last leaving due because I had a couple um gave my pass and my laptop back and walked out of there for the last time in 20 years 20 years I worked there, um, and I was made redundant or I took redundancy, as I like to say, and I think, whilst I've never looked back and never regretted my decision, there was a time when being faced with redundancy was like the worst thing that could have happened to me. In my mind and I'm sure I'm not alone and so I wanted to look at this because it's one of the transitions that I support my clients through, when they're either considering taking redundancy or like just reaching out to see what their options are, to explore further options or if it's actually to support that transition from being employed into being self-employed, being from corporate to being a coach, like I am. It's one of the many transitions that I support through my work. So I wanted to talk about this because it doesn't have to be the scary elephant in the room that no one wants to even consider. Because, for me, some people call me the best redundancy story ever, and whilst it hasn't been all plain sailing and rainbows and unicorns, it's certainly one that I can't imagine not having said yes to. And that's not to say everyone has to say yes to, either because everyone is on their own path, has to say yes to, either because everyone is on their own path and not everyone is meant to be self-employed or be an entrepreneur, and many people are meant to be employed and climb the career ladder and make their impact in the organisation through the products and services that that organisation actually produces. So let's dive in, shall we?

Speaker 1:

So why was it that I dreaded ever being made redundant? Well, when I think about it, as a child I must have been six, seven, something that when I remember my dad coming home from work one day and there being a terrible atmosphere in the house and some heated conversations, maybe some slam doors, and when my parents sat us down to sort of explain what had gone on. My dad had been made redundant. He had a month's notice to work. He needed to find another job. He'd probably been there for 20 years, himself coming up for that anyway.

Speaker 1:

I took on the impression at the time that a redundancy situation was like almost the end of the world, because it meant arguments and it meant there was fears and like how safe were we going to be, because there's all this talk about not having enough money to keep a roof over our head and put food on the table. And that was the reality at the time. Was that back in the day? So that would have been in the 80s, some, some time, um, maybe mid to late 80s. You know, how easy was it to walk out of one job and into another? How easy was it to pay the mortgage on a redundancy that? I don't know how much he got, how much he walked away with, but I'm guessing it wasn't like earth shatteringly amazing.

Speaker 1:

So it was no wonder that when I started my career I always had in the back of my mind that I never wanted to be made redundant. The reality was that my dad went on to get a pretty similar job actually. So he actually walked out of what was a decent job in the day and walked into what was a decent job and actually my mum ended up working there, as did my um uncle and auntie, as did their best friends. So you know it's a local employer and that's how it kind of went. And also at the time I hadn't appreciated this at the time but we sold our house and and we massively upgraded from like a three-bedroom terrace into a four-bedroom detached home. So it wasn't all bad. But I was imprinted as a child with this really bad, negative experience around the whole thought of redundancy. So to say it was a surprise to me when it happened to me 20 years into my career you know I wouldn't be exaggerating there because it really was I had never considered doing anything else. I thought I would work there another 20 years and I would continue getting my long service awards and I would continue climbing the ladder and one day I'd be a managing director because I was a director at the time and you know I would continue to get my beautiful bonuses every year and we'd go on our holidays and we'd do the work on our house and you know things. You know I'd just retire in another 20 years time. Maybe I'll be able to retire early.

Speaker 1:

However, I was presented with an opportunity. My last role I might have said this on the show before my last role was kind of an invite for me to join an experiment. It was a team that's being set up. It was very forward thinking. It was an innovation hub. It was going to be at the coalface of what the innovation industry, tech startups were going to be doing that could potentially disrupt our 150-year-old company right, traditional corporate, big, slow engine room kind of thing. So I got invited to be the head of strategy and operations to set the whole thing up with the MD and I knew going into it that it was a risk because it was an experiment. It was like a project team that was being set up. We had our own budget. We were given, you know, a lot of autonomy to go and do things in a disruptive way, which was really exciting to me. And I had a conversation with a friend coming out of the offer that I got and I was like, but it could end up in redundancy and she said and as if that wasn't the worst thing that could happen. And I think that was all I needed to go. Oh yeah, and what if I was to be made redundant? And it was the first time I'd really considered what else would I do now?

Speaker 1:

I had always wanted to be my own boss. I don't know if you relate, but I never thought I was meant to be working for someone else, even though I did it for many years. And I I never thought I was meant to be working for someone else, even though I did it for many years, and I started working when I was 13. But I always managed to find little ways to find freedom in my roles. I would kind of create the role around what really worked for me, with the level of autonomy and freedom and flexibility that I required to feel really comfortable in that role. But I knew I was always meant to work for myself. I wanted my own business, I wanted to make my own money, I wanted to have that experience. But I'd never really considered how I would do that. So I think it was just that one comment from obviously the right person to talk to, because had I spoken to someone else perhaps, like my partner, for example, had I come home and spoken to him straight away he'd have gone. Well, you can't do that if there's any risk of redundancy. And I'd have gone yeah, you're right, and it probably wouldn't possibly wouldn't have done it. However, I had the right conversation with the right person at the right time, which actually just got me thinking slightly differently, slightly out of the box, slightly out of my comfort zone, and I said yes to that role. And it lasted 18 months and it was a great 18 months.

Speaker 1:

I had my challenges because it was stepping up, it was a promotion, it there was a whole load of transitions in itself. I went from having a very local base to being based in London, so having to commute most of the time, even though I'd always commuted a lot of the time. I was in Zurich every month. I was in America like every six weeks, so there was a lot more travel involved and so there was that transition. But there was also the transition into more of a senior leadership role with higher expectations on me and you know a big dose of imposter syndrome that I took with me and I've spoken about this on previous episodes, but all that was to say by the time it got to the point where I knew that the carpet was being pulled from under our feet, even though we were. What we were doing was amazing.

Speaker 1:

It was a little bit too much, too brave, too out there for the company that you know, who put their money where their mouth was but was now trying to like backtrack a little bit. So I saw this come in and I said to my MD who I was like I was his right hand woman, if you like. I was like come on, this isn't good, is it? We're being brushed under the carpet here. What's going to happen to jobs? And he said, yeah, there will be no jobs. And I said can you tell me jobs? And I said can you tell me what's happening like? Is that a redundancy situation? He said likely to be. Your role will be at risk of redundancy.

Speaker 1:

But I was going on a three-week break and I asked him to put off the um notification of that official notification of that which puts you into a consultation period. I asked him to put that off until I got back. So I bought myself a bit of time, actually, and I went on this amazing trip. I was working with a health coach at the time and she was running a retreat, a yoga retreat in Bali. So I'd already booked on that. I was going out you know the other women on the retreat for a week and then Adam was coming out for another week and I also had a work trip tagged on the front of it where I was going to Hong Kong and Singapore. To you know, it was unnecessary in hindsight but I took advantage of the fact that I was already planned to go there. So I had three weeks away and I intended to make use of that three weeks to really ground into what I wanted to do with my life next and that's what I did. Even on the plane I took a like I got a new journal. I knew I was going to want one for my yoga retreat and I sat on the plane and I've still got that journal today and I've got my pros and my cons, like pros of staying versus leaving and the pros of leaving versus staying.

Speaker 1:

And it was really fascinating to start off that journey and then to go a little bit deeper and I was fortunate that the yoga retreat I was on there was a number of kind of people in roles that I kind of admired, like there was a personal trainer, there was obviously my health coach, there was a yoga instructor. These were all self-employed people, so I was able to have conversations with people that had their own businesses and talk about life outside of corporate and start to like open my eyes and dream a little bigger. The thing I love most about my my work was the people right. I was connected all across the world and all different departments and all different sides of the business. Through the work that I'd done over the years, the various different roles I've been in, I'd gathered this really good network and I was able to really draw on my network to get shit done. That's kind of what I was known for and valued for was really being able to get shit done. But I didn't do it single-handedly, I did it by tapping into my network. So that was kind of a skill of mine, something I enjoyed doing.

Speaker 1:

And then I'd always been a mentor. People had always sought me out to be their mentor. So I had four mentees in various different parts of the world again, various different departments, people that had sought me out to share with them how I had made so many different moves in my career and so many different transitions and how they could do the same thing, how they could get themselves on the map. So I loved that part of my job. I was a natural coach. I always had big teams. My biggest team at one point, I think, was there was 26 people in it. I had a manager working for me as well, but I liked that side of things. You know, I loved bringing that personal element to the role. Like I wasn't the epitome of a modern leader back then, but I definitely had traits of it that were perhaps different to how traditional leadership roles had developed. So I prided myself on, you know, being more empathetic and compassionate towards people, actually wanting to know what was going on for people outside of work so that I could consider that, in the grand scheme of things, when it came to their performance, I wasn't just looking at what they were doing, how they were delivering at work, I was considering the whole person like the real human being. So the people side of things was just like natural to me. So I knew that it had to be. If I did something different, it had to be in the people business and actually it was.

Speaker 1:

When I met up with Adam and we went, we actually had barley belly, which if you've been to barley, you know exactly. I guess it's a bit like deli belly or something like that. Um, I had barley belly and so I hadn't eaten for like 24 hours. And we were in this beautiful retreat in the paddy fields in the like middle of nowhere in Bali, and I felt pretty like rough in terms of like I didn't want to eat anything. I felt pretty empty and actually I was still going to, I was continuing my yoga and meditation kind of habit that I'd created in the seven days in the yoga retreat. And I came out of this I think it was like a 90 minute meditation and I remember it so clearly I had my key card, I was going back into the room where Adam had just been chilling and it like landed, literally like an epiphany. And it like landed literally like an epiphany, like I don't necessarily think this happens very often that we need to wait for it to ever happen just in case it doesn't. But I had this like land, this certainty, this like intuitive hit yes, redundancy it is. We're taking it, we're running and we're never looking back. We're taking it, we're running and we're never looking back.

Speaker 1:

And I kind of knew in that moment that what I was being called to do was do what I did best, which was the coaching, the mentoring, the people stuff, but actually helping the women that are still in that environment really navigate that career through corporate and make the most of it and then deal with these transitions as and when they come up, actually know how to step up into a more senior leadership role, know how to ready themselves to be in the right places, to be recognized for leadership, to navigate redundancy, to do all of that stuff. I just knew in that moment that that's what I needed to do and I opened the door and I went into Adam and I said I'm taking redundancy. He was like what I was like, yeah, and for him it might have come out of the blue, but for me it had been this deep contemplative decision making that had happened over the prior kind of couple of weeks that perhaps, if anything, I'd started in the back of my mind when I took the job 18 months prior and, if anything, I wonder if I actually manifested the redundancy, because I actually had this hope that if it happened I would see it as a blessing, as something that was not to be feared but actually to be embraced, and really see it as a message that it's time I've done my time and it's now time to do something else. And you know what? It was not resistance-free by any stretch of the imagination. You know. I had to really reassure Adam. What was going to happen next?

Speaker 1:

I remember vividly going to speak to my parents. I was really nervous about telling them. They knew I'd been put at risk. They were fearful for me, like that time back in the 80s when, you know, my dad was made redundant and everything was unclear and unknown and unsettled. So they were feeling that for me.

Speaker 1:

Now, 30 years later, and I went into them and I said this is my decision I'm going to leave, I'm going to take the money and I'm going to go and set up on my own and I'm going to do this work in the world that I think is important. And they said we think you're making a mistake. And I actually got really emotional with them and I said I'm not looking for you to understand what I'm doing. I'm looking for your support, regardless of whether or not you agree with it. And you know they've handled that in their own way.

Speaker 1:

My dad doesn't speak to me about my business because he doesn't really understand it. He was employed for so long, right before he retired, and he doesn't really understand how you can have a successful career when it's not working for someone else. Working for a company, like I had, I think, in his mind I had a successful career and I walked away from it, whereas I'm here to show anyone that you can have success and it looks different to the next person's success. Right, my mum is very concerned about whether or not I'm making enough money. So that's the extent to which we have a conversation. But that's okay, right, because I'm not asking them. Okay, right, because I'm not asking them to change. I'm not asking them to put themselves in a risky situation. I'm just saying I'm comfortable doing that myself.

Speaker 1:

Um, and there was also a senior leader at work who actually orchestrated. He created, should I say, a new role for me and he said look, I can, I can create this temporary role. It's for 12 months. Um, you're gonna have to like, come down a band and possibly won't be as much money, but it will buy you some time to find something else within the company. And, um, I thought long and hard about it but it didn't once sway me. You know when you can feel it, I didn't feel compelled to say yes.

Speaker 1:

Other than that, I wanted to, you know, be grateful for his going out of his way to to do that for me within his power, and I actually flew to Zurich and sat down, had lunch with him and said thank you so much for your offer. I'm so grateful for it. But actually I've decided I'm going to go and do my own thing. And his reaction, even though he was very supportive in his own way, was you know, most people that take redundancy are back within two years once they've spent the money. And you know what that sort of sealed the deal for me, because the rebel inside of me was like well, I am never going to come back because that ain't happening to me. And that's been a bit of my fuel as well to ensure that I don't ever have to go back. And why should I? Because the world is our oyster right. We don't have to start on one path and finish on that same path.

Speaker 1:

I went on like a talk or something, and I heard about how women in particular are very good at recreating themselves. If you think about the rebirth like every time you kind of go through a big transition you have this like rebirth. Not only do you give birth or have the ability to give birth as women, but you have this innate ability to rebirth yourself in this new creation. So there are facts actually that these days women go through these like phases in their life. So you know, the first phase is like this really gung-ho career, potentially career-minded, push like, push to the top. And then they get there and they decide perhaps that actually there's more to life and that they want to go and start a family and that they want to build, build something where they can still have money coming in, but do it on their terms. So this is when they're like potentially starting up their own businesses and founding their own companies and making it work in a really flexible way that is not nine to five but allows them to have a family around still having a successful career. And then there's another, a later phase, like late 50s into 60s, possibly even earlier.

Speaker 1:

These days, because women are able to you know, they've afforded themselves this big retirement pot where they can actually opt to take early retirement, and I've certainly worked with a few people that have got to that stage in their early 50s where they're really considering it and just want help to like work out what could I do next. But their focus is different. It's less about themselves and their own career. It's less about their families, necessary because they've grown up and they've flown the nest. It it's more about how they give back. It's more about how can I now be of service to others. So it's more how can I be on the board of charities or how can I do more philanthropic work and go and travel and give back to lesser fortunate societies and things like that.

Speaker 1:

They're actually recreating themselves again and again. And why bloody not? Right? Because the old narrative tells us that you were either a housewife or you went out and worked. I'm going back 40 years now. 30 years ago it was you went and worked like a modern woman and then you actually had a couple of kids and took an extended time off with the kids and went back in the workplace and started your career from there. And then the old narrative also tells us you get to 65 and then you retire. And just think about that word, retire, you know, retire yourself like I just think there's something in that word that has not done us any favors, like how many people do you know who have finally retired and then got all sorts of ailments, got ill, got sick, perhaps died prematurely, because, let's face it, it's still premature in your 60s and even your 70s these days. So that's the old narrative. But we don't have to buy into the old narrative. We get to create our own destiny. We get to decide when we retire, what we do when we retire, if we even call it retirement, maybe we want to call it our next level of existence, like a higher existence or something like that. That would be fun. You get to decide.

Speaker 1:

So let me ask you this Can you see yourself and was it part of the plan for you to always be doing the thing that you're doing now, like, just feel what comes up in your body. Don't necessarily just listen to the words that come into your head. How does it feel in your body? Does that feel like truth? Does that feel good? Whatever the answer is, does that feel good to you if you were to be faced with redundancy, if you were to be put at risk of redundancy, would that be the worst news ever for you? Again, feel into the answer. Hear the answer come up from like your guts, or from inside your, somewhere around your heart, and notice the difference between that and the answer that comes up from your head. And then if you were just to close your eyes and imagine what, if? What if you were faced with a crossroads? What if you had an opportunity to do something different? How would you feel then? Would you grasp it with two hands and go run with it? Would you feel fearful? Would you feel uncertain? Would you not know what you were potentially letting yourself in for? Can you just sit with that for a minute and see what comes up in your body? Now there is no right answer, no right or wrong answer. There is only the answer that comes up from within you.

Speaker 1:

And I'm posing these questions because we don't take the time to consider it right. We fly through life, we don't stop. Before we know it, we're getting old and we haven't stopped to think about what else we'd do. We've just kind of been on this treadmill and life has passed us by, and there's no judgment, because this is what we do as a society. This is what happens. So I'm just challenging you to stop and think about it for a minute. And there's also no judgment if you decide that actually, yeah, I would stay here, I would grow old here, I would retire as soon as I can. I would do nothing. I would find a golf course and probably find me on there for the rest of my days, like no judgment. But does that come from within you or does that come from outside of you? What is expected of you, what your parents did, what you see your friends doing?

Speaker 1:

I am all about helping you tap into what is true for you and what you came here to do. And if you're interested in actually getting some support to do that, to work that out for yourself, I actually have an amazing offer. It's called the game plan. It's a 90 minute strategy session where you and I jump on, zoom, we go okay, where are you at? Where do you want to be we? It's all about creating your next move, but doing it in a really like thoughtful but strategic way that actually allows you to move forward with intention, to create your next move powerfully and I will link to that in the show notes if you're interested in checking that out. I'd love, love, love, to support you, and all that's left to say really is thank, yeah, thank you for listening.

Speaker 1:

And a lot of people ask me, now that I'm six years down the line, like do you have any regrets? Have you ever looked back? And I can honestly say that I spend a lot less time looking back now. I do like these anniversaries to really reflect, but I am a lot more grounded in the here and now, in today, into what's happening in front of me, and more hopeful about the future and more curious about what could happen, rather than seeing a set out predictable future ahead of me. So who knows where I would have ended up had I stayed. I can probably tell you that I'd still be there. I would be doing probably a lesser role, a lot less travel, because there are no budgets these days to do the travel that I was doing. I would probably be at home a lot more. I would probably have done a lot more work on the house because I've had the money flow to have done that and I've had the annual bonuses to kind of bolster what we could do.

Speaker 1:

But apart from that, had I not made the move then, I wouldn't be driving around a Volkswagen, transporter, camper, van right now.

Speaker 1:

I wouldn't have a dog.

Speaker 1:

I wouldn't have learned all the things that I've learned on my quest to uncover the truth of who I am and unbecome and, you know be the powerful force that I feel I am today to be able to help others step into their own powerful leader within, I wouldn't have met some of the incredible people that I've met online, whether they're my clients, whether they're the coaches that I've invested in and worked with, whether they're the women that I've met through being in those different containers.

Speaker 1:

You know, I don't take it back at all. I wouldn't look back and I don't know where I'm necessarily heading. I have an idea of what I'm here to do and who I'm here to serve and how I'm here to help, but I don't really know where that's going to lead me. And that doesn't scare me anymore, that doesn't frighten me and, if anything, that excites me. And I wouldn't have found out that about myself had I not realized that I was embracing redundancy and seeing it as an opportunity and not like a noose around my neck. So I certainly realize I'm more of a risk taker than I ever consider myself to be and I wonder where you stand. So, yeah, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'll be back again next week, take care, bye.

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Emma Clayton

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